Curse

SotiCoto · Feb 16, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

[Yeah... so this notion has been done countless times before in various forms.... but from what I've seen I don't like any of the other variants around. The way I see it, it should be something like this]:

Something partially inspired at least by Jan Janson from Baldur's Gate 2... who amused me immensely with his strange tinkerings (and turnip-peddling)...

An Artifacer would primarily be a support character... but very useful in certain circumstances.

Attributes would be as follows:

Tinkering: Categorised by skills with long cast-times that would add relatively long-lasting buffs to the equipment of both the character and allies. Like the equivalent of applying a temporary mod to a weapon for two minutes or somesuch. Perhaps also skills for repairing animated automata (see Animation).

Alchemy: Potions that do various things, but quite a few for hurling at enemies. A slightly more generalised direct-effect attribute.

Animation: The Artifacer's answer to a Necromancer's Death-Magic ... The ability to make mechanical minions. These would be tougher and longer-lasting than Necro-minions... but would have to be constructed out of loot / crafting materials / inventory items (or some alternative for PvP) and would take a bit longer to make (thus be far less in number). More like Iron Golems and the like (or slightly steam-punk like clockwork minions).

Scavenging (Primary): Core attribute allowing the Artifacer to get a certain number of crafting materials from every opponent killed (dependant on their type) and including skills that while generally weak, could result in more materials if the enemy died under its effect.

For weapon purposes.... a Spanner and some sort of off-hand... functioning like the Artifacer equivalent of Wand and Focus...

Like I said at the beginning though... I know similar ideas are scattered all over the place. I just believe my take on the idea to be more..... appropriate perhaps.

General of the blade · Feb 16, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

like a archaeologist, a duster maybe? i don't know could be kind of a weak class.

System_Crush · Feb 16, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Although I like steam-punk, I do not want any in GW.
In GW magic was gifted to the world by the gods centuries ago, this so they would not be required to preform all the mericles anymore.

Steam-Punk works well in a game in which high magic and high technology are rare, but the GW gods see to it that magic is spread kind of equally everywhere, automatically blocking technology everywhere as magic and technology interfere with each other, both in the laws of nature and in the unwillingness fo the users to share power with the other side.

All other GW classes are magical, a technological one would not be able to multiclass, and most likely would require the storry line to give them their own faction that does not allow any other profession to folow the story line because they all use magic.

It seems to me that mixing high technology with the extremely magical enviroment of GW seems really hard, as magic ang technology do not mix well.

Innoccence · Feb 17, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I agree completely with System_Crush, for that explination is spot on. To have technology based character you would have to have an enviornment in which machines and gadgets are found in almost every corner, thus allowing them to use such weapons and skills. Try thinking up a magical class, or melee since that would be more fitting to Guild Wars.

Good Day.
~Innoccence

The5thSeraph · Feb 17, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Stop me if I'm wrong, but couldn't "technology" be ENTIRELY dependant on magic in order to operate? Just a different kind of magic perhaps.

It doesn't look to me like any attempt at bringing in high technology is suggested here. Maybe something more along the lines of the Eberron Campaign for D&D: It seems technologically advanced in some respects, but only because its all entirely dependant on magic.

Besides... all good fantasy systems have golems of more than just clay (and flesh). Metal golems are practically a necessity.

System_Crush · Feb 17, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Technology that works because of magic is a lame and unimaginative idea, it is used in general by people that make animated series for a audiance of vieuwers below the age of 11, because they are likely not to get it if a magical flying apperatus does not look like a scooter/surf-/skatebord.

Or magical technology is used because someone was unable to or too lazy to come up with something innovationg.

Now after that burst of anger, I will explain why not
Technology works because of the coöperation of components, this coöperation kept constant and reliable by it being reliable that the laws of physics do not change.

Magic is created through the will of a magician and bends or even breaks the laws of nature, whenever magic is used near technology that technology shatters/breaksdown depending on how delicate or percise it is.

Not only that, in order to repedatively/efficently break the laws of physics/nature a magician will soften them(uncontiously even)
This aura of distorted reality around a mage, is in guild wars already apperant elementalists have this little aura as their head gear that ignores the laws of physics as they wear it.
I think this should have been a 2 meter radius of a visual effect around the elementalist, mostly for looks really.

Lastly I'll add that shattering technology is not entirely a plus for the magician, first of all it is distracting to have stuff which you do not understand in the first place to sudenly start to crack squeel or whatever, when you go near it and esspecially when you try to cast a spell.
Second the people that use the technology place their faith in their technology, as I said magic is created by a immensly strong willpower.
Faith is also a willpower, faith in the functioning of their technology will combat with that of the magician in his might over the laws of physics(actually in his faith that these laws do not exist)
Because of their inhuman willpower a magician will still be able to cast their spells(they could outwill and army if they needed too), however they will lose some of their effectiveness(faith) as they notice the laws of physics flexing their (hypotetical)muscles.

Now I hope the above was a clearer explenation of why not to mix magic and technology.
Now if you meant that the magic is to look like technology but still just be magic there is another explantion of why not

Technology takes its form from its function(with some decorations) the function of magic is to attract attention of the gods/otherworldly beings that have power over the laws of physics.
This means decoration/attention grabbing is the main function there for the form is the function, in magic the history of a boject is also a form as otherworly being do not see soley in one time frame.
Reagents such as crystals, wood and bones are more likely to be in the making of magical devices than materials such as metal, gears or charges.

An example:
The stone elementals in Tyria could have been maticually carved stones, that resemble a human figurine greatly. Instead they are are made from a bunsh of rock that do not even fit together nicely, they are full of holes.
This is becouse in magic the object is more important than its function, the stones used in elementals are likely charged over many years by geing part of a place where there was a lot fo magic, making them more usable for the creation of a elemental than the most perfectly cut statue could ever be.

Magic does not derive form from function there for it will never look techical on the outside, the magical power is on the inside hidden to the eye of a mere human.

The5thSeraph · Feb 18, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I've got to say. That was the most pretentious collection of pseudoscientific crap I have heard in a long time.
Congratulations on the entertainment value... though I have to laugh at you if you were taking anything you said there even remotely seriously.

Whats even more hilarious is that you've fallen right into the same childish trap that so often lures people in the various entertainment businesses: Thinking about magic as though it were some sort of science that followed set laws and "should" be a certain way.

Magic is basically paradoxical: the workings of that which do not work. It is the catch-all label applied to that which conveniently cannot or has not yet been explained by more rational means. As such, applying it to a physical form that is normally perceived to be logical doesn't in fact make it any more or less paradoxical than it would otherwise.

What it essentially amounts to is that once you have accepted a system of "magic" within a game... or indeed anything else... you essentially have submitted that you're willing to accept anything at all. You've accepted that they're basically making use of something which can be as flashy and mystical-sounding as they want it to without actually making any sense in real terms.

As such there is absolutely no reason why something which looks technological in some way cannot operate on exactly the same principles. In case you hadn't got the hint, thats because those principles are effectively undefined.

stuntharley · Feb 18, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Oh yes lets get triple ecto drops from smites. This idea is ridiculous sorry to say.

/disagree

Kilmo · Feb 18, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

no technology. ever.

nebojats · Feb 18, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Whatever you think about this CC, I'm not sure if it really matters... SotiCoto's banned.

System_Crush · Feb 18, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Ofcource we sientifically determine the way magic works, that was the entire underbuild!
Because we can not determine how it works we there by determine a way it does not work each time we try.
I know the arcanum theory is flaude, your body is full of precise and delicate chemical reactions, meaning that magic use should kill you.
Even though Troika deliberatly ignored that when they threw it into the RPG world, I will rather use their logic than that used in Winx or Trolls even *shivers in disdane

*

It was not a question about a direct sientific relation, it is about the absence of one.
And the question of how to fill this holow that that leaves, I prefere a professional development approach.
Now if you want to vieuw it in a way of "I'll can fill it with whatever I want" I can't do anything about it, I just think it is not the right choice.

And ofcource there are a ways to get around the problem of magic messing up the 'technology' inside your body, as the way the absence of knowlage can be filled.

The5thSeraph · Feb 18, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntharley

Oh yes lets get triple ecto drops from smites. This idea is ridiculous sorry to say.

/disagree

If it doesn't count for rare materials... only common ones... then it shouldn't matter so much, should it? ¬_¬

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilmo

no technology. ever.

Tell that to the Stone Summit... or the Kournan Soldiers... or the Kurzicks or Luxons.... or just about any other race in the entirety of Guild Wars. Its a bit late to be preaching "no technology" when there are all kinds of siege-weapons about the place that operate on mechanical principles... gratuitous use of explosives... and already animated golems walk the lands.

Nothing is being suggested here that isn't already in the system.